Cat amongst the pigeons time....

In the Thermal Images thread Mike has noted that taking measurements is not considered "Working Live" so you may not need a work permit.

There has been considerable debate amongst my peers regarding exactly what constitutes working live. This is especially critical working in the UPS industry as typically things never get turned off except for really major works (say 1 in 10 years) and if it has to be turned off completely it often takes months of planning.

Then moving away from the AC side to the DC which most understand that there is simply no switch to flick or fuse to pull to isolate the system, and we could be working on a system with 500-600VDC across the bank. Now usually the string can be isolated from any earth reference and it is generally accepted practice to use uninsulated tools and work bare-handed but there is still quite a bit of potential there.

When I started with my current employer I asked for 1000V rated gloves to which I was told I couldn't have any because that would encourage me to work live and 'we don't work live'. I purchased some anyway and claimed the cost back but just recently I came across a bank of batteries where 1 block had exploded and shorted to earth. The faulty battery was in the rear of two rows with 300mm clearance to the shelf above. The nearest point to the fault accessible without reaching over another battery was 180VDC above earth. Tell me how I am supposed to work safely without gloves?

You can NOT work safely without gloves and properly rated footwear, but as far as thermography goes and 70E, it has been improvised. The requirements have been lowered on the basis of "qualified personnel". This stands for the US. I am not sure how it stands in Australia.

Well here in Canada we have CSA Z462 it is new being really only "inforced" (I use that term lightly, because it is not law, as of yet, however most are following it now)
Every area will be different, even if you are not to work "Live" YOU (Canada/USA CSA Z462 has taken things from the NFPA 70E) you STILL need all the Arc Flash protection, which gloves are in there to "Make sure" the voltage is not present. The only thing I heard is the insulated tools, show you could work live. There are time when yes you HAVE to work live, and you should be able to use the right tools for the right job. However there will always be boss out there that think differently. My last place I work, they told me that we didnt need any of the PPE, because we didnt do live work, which was super funny because I did alot. I went out and got my own Gloves shield and the whole bit, after that if we came up to a problem and we had to work live, we told me, to where my PPE!!????
uh?.....okay......then

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MIKE
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"arc flash" being the key word.

an arc flash assesment is required to determine the extend of the blast and what ppe would be required if there were a dead short...the temperature generated from the blast and how far it would blow out and at what temperature it would be at lets say half a metre or 2 metres...you dont want to be wearing just 1000 volt glove if a blast generating 52000 degree C at 1 metres...you are likely to loose your shorts jokes aside this is a very important topic and requires an good understanding before opening a panel or a panel exploding even while still closed.

http://magmee.mm.st/Areas%20of%20Expertise.html

go to this site and watch the clip at the bottom right hand side under areas of expertise...sub title....electrical and mechanical investigations...in fact you dont want to be standing in front of that panel with all the PPe money can buy.

Hi Mike,

I'd like to share something with you; I was in the same position you told us you were earlier. And you know what? My direct boss happened to be a close relative of mine and he didn't give more a damn about my safety than your boss did about you. It hurt a lot, especially as I had the Fluke induced safety consciousness. Afterwards I've come to recognize ... if I don't respect myself nobody will, so I've allowed myself the best measuring equipment from Fluke, I've bought myself a pair of safety glasses and best 1000V rated gloves. There's no ROI in what I did since I do service only occasionally, however I know when I'm going on a job I'm confident in the safety abilities I've learnt from Fluke's appnotes and on the Fluke tools. And that state of confidence is peace of mind; that in turn allows me to focus on the task itself rather than get distracted about safety concerns or not having the proper equipment (at that time the investment was worth about 3000 bucks and please note I only had employee status - and that hasn't changed since). I'm happy and there is a blissful stillness within myself ... which my boss cannot say about himself. And that is ultimately the only "thing" that truly matters (the former ... wuddya think ).

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Hey there Goe
Nicely said. The most that has affected in the field of electrical safety is "donnies accident" video. I think since I watch that I think about how one choice can make for you.
FYI for everyone
Donnies video is now back on youtube but without music. Music is not on for legal reasons, however the video with the music can say more then 10k words

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MIKE
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